Legislature(2005 - 2006)SENATE FINANCE 532
03/30/2005 01:00 PM House RESOURCES
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HJR9 | |
| HJR16 | |
| HB198 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | HJR 16 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | HB 198 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | HJR 9 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | HB 174 | TELECONFERENCED | |
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE
March 30, 2005
1:08 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Jay Ramras, Co-Chair
Representative Ralph Samuels, Co-Chair
Representative Jim Elkins
Representative Gabrielle LeDoux
Representative Kurt Olson
Representative Harry Crawford
Representative Mary Kapsner
Representative Carl Gatto
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Paul Seaton
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 9
Urging the United States Congress to honor the process and
judgment of the federal courts in the case of the Exxon Valdez
disaster and to refrain from enacting legislation that would
affect the outcome of the courts' resolution of the case.
- MOVED HJR 9 OUT OF COMMITTEE
HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 16
Opposing the designation of any area in the state as a world
heritage site, biosphere reserve, or any other type of
international designation without the consent of the Alaska
State Legislature.
- HEARD AND HELD
HOUSE BILL NO. 198
"An Act relating to aquatic farming; and providing for an
effective date."
- MOVED CSHB 198(RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE
HOUSE BILL NO. 174
"An Act relating to commercial fishing permit and vessel license
fees; and providing for an effective date."
- SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: HJR 9
SHORT TITLE: URGE CONGRESS HONOR EXXON VALDEZ JUDGMENT
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) LEDOUX
02/14/05 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/14/05 (H) RES, JUD
03/30/05 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM SENATE FINANCE 532
BILL: HJR 16
SHORT TITLE: OPPOSE UN LAND DESIGNATIONS IN ALASKA
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) ELKINS
03/14/05 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
03/14/05 (H) RES
03/30/05 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM SENATE FINANCE 532
BILL: HB 198
SHORT TITLE: AQUATIC FARMING
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) ELKINS
03/04/05 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
03/04/05 (H) FSH, RES
03/18/05 (H) FSH AT 8:30 AM CAPITOL 124
03/18/05 (H) Moved CSHB 198(FSH) Out of Committee
03/18/05 (H) MINUTE(FSH)
03/21/05 (H) FSH RPT CS(FSH) 3DP 2NR
03/21/05 (H) DP: WILSON, ELKINS, THOMAS;
03/21/05 (H) NR: HARRIS, KAPSNER
03/30/05 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM SENATE FINANCE 532
WITNESS REGISTER
SUZANNE HANCOCK, Staff
to Representative Gabrielle LeDoux
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented HJR 9 on behalf of Representative
LeDoux, sponsor.
MATT JAMIN, Attorney for the Plaintiffs
Exxon Valdez Lawsuit
Kodiak, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HJR 9.
MICHAEL MAXWELL, Commercial Fisherman
Cordova, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HJR 9.
ROXY ESTES
Cordova, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HJR 9.
DOLLIE SCOTT
Cordova, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HJR 9.
MICHAEL SCOTT, Commercial Fisherman
Cordova, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HJR 9.
DIANE PLATT
Cordova District Fishermen United
Cordova, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HJR 9.
STEVE SMITH, Commercial Fisherman
Cordova, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HJR 9.
JERRY MCCUNE
United Fishermen of Alaska
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HJR 9.
JAMES VAN HORN, Staff
to Representative Jim Elkins
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented HJR 16 on behalf of Representative
Elkins, sponsor.
CINDY MIDDLESTADT, Communications Manager
Alaska Support Industry Alliance
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HJR 16.
JASON BRUNE, Project Coordinator
Resource Development Council
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HJR 16.
IRENE ANDERSON, Assistant Land Manager
Bering Straits Native Corporation
Nome, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HJR 16.
DICK COOSE
Concerned Alaskans for Resource and Environment
Ketchikan, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HJR 16.
JOS GOVAARS, Staff
to Representative Jim Elkins
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented HB 198 on behalf of Representative
Elkins, sponsor.
JULIE DECKER, Executive Director
Southeast Alaska Regional Dive Fisheries Association
Wrangell, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 198.
ROBERT HARTLEY, Oyster Farmer, President
Alaska Shellfish Growers Association
Homer, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 198.
DAVID BEDFORD, Deputy Commissioner
Alaska Department of Fish & Game
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 198.
PAUL FUHS
Pacific Aquaculture Caucus (PAC) Alaska
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 198.
ACTION NARRATIVE
CO-CHAIR RALPH SAMUELS called the House Resources Standing
Committee meeting to order at 1:08:51 PM. Representatives
Olson, Elkins, Ramras, Samuels, and LeDoux were present at the
call to order. Representatives Crawford, Kapsner, and Gatto
joined the meeting while it was in progress.
HJR 9-URGE CONGRESS HONOR EXXON VALDEZ JUDGMENT
CO-CHAIR SAMUELS announced that the first order of business
would be HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 9, Urging the United States
Congress to honor the process and judgment of the federal courts
in the case of the Exxon Valdez disaster and to refrain from
enacting legislation that would affect the outcome of the
courts' resolution of the case.
SUZANNE HANCOCK, Staff to Representative Gabrielle LeDoux,
Alaska State Legislature, said HJR 9 urges the United States
Congress to respect the judicial process and refrain from any
action to alter the punitive damage awards to more than 32,000
plaintiffs as a result of the 1989 Exxon Valdez oil spill. She
noted that after 16 years, the plaintiffs are still waiting for
resolution of the lawsuit. When Congress considered the Oil
Pollution Act of 1990, Exxon Mobil Corporation sought an
amendment that would have substantially reduced the punitive
damages that would have been paid from the Exxon Valdez oil
spill. This resolution allows the courts to determine the
matter, she concluded.
1:10:38 PM
MATT JAMIN, Attorney for the Plaintiffs, Kodiak, said Congress
is passing bills very quickly without public input, and current
members of Congress are concerned about class action and tort
litigation. It is possible, he said, that legislation could
retroactively alter the Exxon Valdez punitive award case. He
said he supports the resolution.
1:12:22 PM
MICHAEL MAXWELL, Commercial Fisherman, Cordova, said he has
fished and repaired nets since he was a child. "Our lives were
drastically changed when the Exxon Valdez ran aground." He
noted the Prince William Sound herring fisheries were "totally
wiped out," losing a huge portion of his livelihood. "Fisherman
who had $500,000 boats sold them for pennies on the dollar," he
added. In Cordova there are $30,000 nets stacked up and unused.
He said he has lost health insurance and has many medical
problems. The community had a fundraising benefit to help pay
for his medical needs. The spill took livelihoods away from
many, and he asked, "Where is the help from our politicians and
government? Our court system has failed us." He suggested
forbidding Exxon from drilling on the Arctic National Wildlife
Refuge. "How about laws quadrupling verdicts of large
corporations for using their great influence to stifle court
proceedings?" he asked, "Where's the help?" He accused the
legislature of doing nothing. "While Exxon makes millions, we
go broke," he said. "You people are all in Exxon's pockets," he
said. His daughter was 2-years-old when the spill happened, and
she will graduate from high school this spring, he noted. "My
biggest dream was to send her to a good school, and, hopefully,
one of these days I will be able to do it. Please help us," he
concluded.
1:16:36 PM
ROXY ESTES, Cordova, said the Exxon Valdez oil spill destroyed
her life, and forced her children to move away. She said
putting a cap on damage awards is ludicrous. "The damage done
is beyond words." Big oil has had their way, she said, and it
bulldozed right over locals with no one in the political arena
willing to stand up for them. No one has been held accountable
for the lives destroyed, she said. She stated, "Exxon's
excellent p.r. campaign has been enormously successful.
Everyone worldwide thinks Prince William Sound is fine. It is
not. It probably never will be again." Elected officials need
to represent the people who put them in office, she added.
"Stand up for the little guy."
1:18:41 PM
DOLLIE SCOTT, Cordova, said herring, crab and everything that
was fished has gone downhill. She said if the damage claims
aren't settled, it is an invitation to do it again. She said
all the fishermen fought against having the pipeline come out of
Valdez. She said the community could have lived with an
accident due to a storm, but "it was a drunken accident."
1:19:54 PM
MICHAEL SCOTT, Fisherman, Cordova, said people think that Exxon
has paid all that is due, "but nothing has been paid to the
fisherman." He suggested that they pay before they can do
business in the state.
1:20:57 PM
DIANE PLATT, Cordova District Fishermen United, said her
organization represents over 900 commercial fishermen in area
(E). She noted that many of them have been devastated by the
oil spill, and she encourages any attempt to get the plaintiffs
the settlements they have been waiting for.
1:21:37 PM
STEVE SMITH, Commercial Fisherman, Cordova, said half of his
income was from herring fishing, which is now gone. He noted
that nothing indicates it is coming back. He said the case has
been going on longer than is reasonable. "Exxon has a lot of
money; they don't mind spending it on their attorneys, and
they're very reluctant to go ahead and pay the bill that the
courts and juries have deemed we have coming." He concluded
that justice delayed is not really justice.
1:22:41 PM
JERRY MCCUNE, United Fishermen of Alaska, Juneau, said there
have been several attempts by Exxon to get legislation to free
them of punitive damages. "They're on constant watch in
Washington D.C.," he said. The resolution urges Congress not to
allow any legislation to get Exxon out of their duty.
1:23:47 PM
REPRESENTATIVE ELKINS moved to pass HJR 9 from committee with
individual recommendations. There being no objection, HJR 9
passed from the House Resources Standing Committee.
HJR 16-OPPOSE UN LAND DESIGNATIONS IN ALASKA
CO-CHAIR SAMUELS announced that the next order of business would
be HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 16, Opposing the designation of
any area in the state as a world heritage site, biosphere
reserve, or any other type of international designation without
the consent of the Alaska State Legislature.
JAMES VAN HORN, Staff to Representative Jim Elkins, Alaska State
Legislature, presented HJR 16 on behalf of Representative
Elkins, sponsor (original punctuation provided):
House Joint Resolution 16 opposes the designation of
any area in Alaska as a World Heritage Site, Biosphere
Reserve, or any other type of international
designation without the specific consent of the Alaska
State Legislature. It also urges the United States
Congress to pass and the President to sign legislation
that will require approval by and Act of Congress
before any area in the United States or its
territories can be nominated as a World Heritage Site,
Biosphere Reserve, or any other type of international
designation.
This resolution urges the Congress of the United
States to reaffirm the power of Congress, under
article IV, section 3 of the United States
Constitution over international agreements, which
concern disposal, management, and use of lands
belonging to the United States. To protect State
powers not reserved to the Federal Government under
the Constitution from Federal actions designating
lands pursuant to international agreements. Ensure
that no United States citizen suffers any diminishment
or loss of individual rights as a result of Federal
actions designating lands pursuant to international
agreements for purposes of imposing restrictions on
use of those lands. Protect private interests in real
property from diminishment as a result of Federal
actions designating lands pursuant to international
agreements.
1:26:48 PM
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD asked him to define a biosphere reserve.
MR. VAN HORN said it is an area of terrestrial and coastal
ecosystems promoting solutions to reconcile the conservation of
biodiversity with sustainable use. The United Nations
Educational Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO)
"governs these biosphere reserves," he added. "Biosphere
reserves just sort of showed up," he said. They include three
areas once designated: core area, buffer zone, and transitional
zone. He said normally the core area is not subject to human
activity, the buffer zones help protect the core area, and the
transitional zone is an area outside of the buffer where
resources are developed for the benefit of the people who live
there. "The majority of the biosphere reserves are talking
about people like in South America ... where they sell their
baskets and Native arts and stuff of this nature," he said.
"What is disturbing is ... the Secretary of Interior, by just a
signature of her pen, can designate a World Heritage Site." He
said it circumvents the constitution.
1:30:15 PM
CINDY MIDDLESTADT, Communications Manager, Alaska Support
Industry Alliance, said the alliance is a nonprofit trade group
of oil, gas, and mining industries. The alliance supports HJR
16 because environmental maneuvers can stall development
projects, and conservation designations would provide another
tool for the international environmental groups and wildlife
activists. She said industry projects need to get off the
ground and maintain operations. International movements and
ill-spirited motivations could increase the fear factor, she
added, and it is appropriate that Congress decides before any
conservation designations are made in Alaska.
1:32:06 PM
JASON BRUNE, Project Coordinator, Resource Development Council,
said his organization's mission is to grow Alaska's economy by
developing natural resources. He said he agrees with Ms.
Middlestadt's comments. He said the Alaska National Interest
Lands Conservation Act created a network of conservation
systems. The federal government manages 235 million acres in
Alaska, and 58 million are Wilderness. The addition of world
heritage sites is unnecessary, he opined. "Such designations
would severely limit the economic potential of resource
development projects throughout our great state," he said.
"Alaskans, and Alaskans alone," should make decisions on "our
land and our resources," therefore Congress and the legislature
should approve of biosphere reserves in Alaska.
1:34:46 PM
STEVE BORELL, Executive Director, Alaska Miners Association,
said biosphere reserves and world heritage sites would pose a
serious threat to development, and they would be used to harass
developers. No more lands in Alaska should be added to any type
of conservation system. Administrative actions cannot be used
to close or study lands unless the study is authorized by an act
of Congress, he said. He said world heritage sites have been
used by environmental groups to stop projects, and one project
in Australia was harassed by picketing a board meeting. Three
environmental groups petitioned an overseas developer to not
insure a mine in Kamchatka, where a world heritage site overlaid
a park and preserve that had been established by the Russian
government. He believes that if a world heritage site was in
place in western Alaska, the Red Dog mine would have been
blocked. He said it is important for an act of Congress to
approve a world heritage site. He noted is not concerned by the
current Alaska administration, but he is by future ones.
1:38:34 PM
IRENE ANDERSON, Assistant Land Manager, Bering Straits Native
Corporation, Nome, said she has worked in opposition to the
marine biosphere in Beringia. The federal budget allocates a
lot of money to universities to study Beringia National Park,
she added. She said she wants to stop authorization of money
for studies of these areas. She noted that there is good
information coming from the studies, but "they don't need to be
calling [it] an international park." She said Bering Strait
Natives have land within and adjacent to the Bering Land Bridge
National Preserve, and Shishmaref needs to move because of
warming ocean erosion problems. She said, "If we get these
world heritages...we could see that not only would the Native
land be affected...but neighboring state land...mines right
south of the preserve, and we would expect that that would no
longer happen because of the transitional zones and buffer
zones."
1:43:39 PM
DICK COOSE, Concerned Alaskans for Resource and Environment,
Ketchikan, said his group was formed to keep access to
resources. He said he supports HJR 16, "that asks, basically,
the U.S. legislature to require that the Congress and the state
legislature approve any UN designations of world heritage sites,
biosphere reserves, or any other type of international
designation." The designations ultimately restrict or stop
public use of public and private land, he said. In Yellowstone
National Park, there was a mine outside of the park that was
stopped as a direct result of a United Nations designation. He
requested that local governments also have a say. "The UN is a
non-elected body ... and we don't need their interference in our
lives," he said.
1:47:22 PM
REPRESENTATIVE ELKINS said he would like to hold the resolution
in order to draft amendments.
[HJR 16 was held over]
HB 198-AQUATIC FARMING
CO-CHAIR SAMUELS announced that the next order of business would
be HOUSE BILL NO. 198 "An Act relating to aquatic farming; and
providing for an effective date."
JOS GOVAARS, Staff to Representative Jim Elkins, said HB 198
amends Alaska's Aquatic Farming Act and will allow aquatic farms
to operate in compliance with a recent supreme court decision.
It will permit shellfish farmers to sell insignificant wild
shellfish stocks, he explained. Alaska Department of Fish &
Game (ADF&G) opened a commercial dive fishery on designated
mariculture sites to remove the wild geoducks, which prepares
the sites for future mariculture. He noted that this
legislation is a compromise between industry members and the
administration.
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER asked about the taxation.
1:50:20 PM
JULIE DECKER, Executive Director, Southeast Alaska Regional Dive
Fisheries Association (SARDFA), Wrangell, said HB 198 is a
result of a supreme court decision, which forced the parties to
come to the table and create a compromise. The levy, which
Representative Kapsner referred to as a tax, should be set in
regulations because this is a new way to approach resource
management. If the legislature feels it is appropriate to set
the levy in statute, she said SARDFA would like it as high as
possible. The court said the state cannot hand significant
stocks to an individual. To comply with the court decision, the
levy would need to be high enough to make sure there is no net
profit going to the farmer, she said. The farmers will be
allowed to clear land to prepare for their farming activities.
1:52:33 PM
ROBERT HARTLEY, Oyster Farmer and President, Alaska Shellfish
Growers Association, Homer, said HB 198 is an enabling bill to
allow the shellfish industry to go forward. Dive fishermen and
the state are in agreement with this legislation, he added. He
said that without the bill, the geoduck farms will be gone and
the Seward hatchery will close, because the geoduck seed is a
vital part of the shellfish hatchery business plan.
1:54:08 PM
DAVID BEDFORD, Deputy Commissioner, Alaska Department of Fish &
Game, said he was one of the principles involved in developing
"this compromise." He said Alaska has been a poor environment
for the development of geoduck farms, which he thinks will be a
productive industry. The superior court said the state
constitution bars ADF&G from transferring a significant amount
of common property resource to farmers. The supreme court said
there is no statutory authority to transfer insignificant
amounts. HB 198 remedies the problem. It allows shellfish
farmers to harvest insignificant amounts of wild stock from
their farm sites, he said. For geoducks, ADF&G staff believe
12,000 pounds per farm site should be considered insignificant.
Full public regulatory review will revisit this number, he said.
Other elements of HB 198 are important, he added. Section 2
reiterates the superior courts decision that the state may not
authorize a taking of significant stocks of shellfish by a
farmer, and surveys will be required by biologists.
1:57:35 PM
MR. BEDFORD said that Section 3 of HB 198 creates a new
authority for the commissioner of ADF&G to allow a farmer to
harvest a significant amount of wild stock with an appropriate
levy--not a tax, but a right to harvest. He said that this is
new ground, and advised that the greater the compensation the
public will receive, the more it will be acceptable for the
exclusive harvest. Whatever price was charged, farmers would
need to be somewhere below the break-even point.
2:00:01 PM
MR. BEDFORD said Section 5 is important, because ADF&G does not
allow the public access to proprietary information, but it will
report to the public the total amount of shellfish taken. He
said another section requires farmers to leave the amount of
stock that they take when their permit is over.
2:01:33 PM
CO-CHAIR SAMUELS said there is talk of an amendment that defines
an insignificant number.
MR. BEDFORD said ADF&G prefers to set the amount in regulation
because that process allows for more science and public input.
2:02:36 PM
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER suggested that it is also easier to
change regulations.
MR. BEDFORD said it is true, but there would be another hearing.
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER asked about the level of a levy.
MR. BEDFORD said the principle criteria is what is adequate
compensation to the public for a common property resource.
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER said she doesn't understand how farmed
animals can be a common property resource.
MR. BEDFORD answered that in aquatic farming, there are natural
stock already there.
2:04:59 PM
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER asked how it is lucrative if a farmer is
assessed a 50 percent levy.
MR. BEDFORD said there is no levy on their stock, only on the
natural stock.
2:05:36 PM
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD asked the difference between wild and
farmed stock.
MR. BEDFORD said they are easily identified by age and size.
2:07:16 PM
PAUL FUHS, Pacific Aquaculture Caucus (PAC) Alaska, said
shellfish farming will be a good industry. One five-acre farm
can produce as much as the total commercial harvest of Alaska
wild stock in one year. It will help the wild fishery because
it creates a year-round market, he said. He said the tension
between wild harvesters and farmers is that farmers want to
establish farms on good habitat, which means there are already
wild stock there. There is no commercial fishery on a site with
only 100,000 pounds of wild stock. He said the legislature was
fed up with ADF&G for not allowing farms, so it passed House
Bill 208. He said there are two amendments. The one from Lance
Nelson in the Department of Law is a good amendment, he opined.
MR. FUHS said he will leave it up to the legislature to
determine whether to set 12,000 pounds in policy, but, "I wish
we could say that we had more faith in [ADF&G] to stick by
12,000 pounds, or not attach other things to it, like how close
it is to another fishery or other things that you could never
define. My clients are going to be fine with their farm, but if
you want this to go into an industry and have other people to be
able to have farms sites where there's insignificant stocks, you
either need to put it in as 12,000 pounds or keep a close eye on
what [ADF&G] is doing. Eventually, I think we may come to the
conclusion you really need to move this to the Department of
Agriculture in [the Department of Natural Resources]." He said
that ADF&G has a natural hostility to farming.
2:11:29 PM
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD asked the value of 12,000 pounds.
MR. FUHS said 12,000 pounds would wholesale at $100,000.
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX asked, "Do these things move around?"
MR. FUHS said geoduck clams live in one place about three feet
under the sea floor and filter 80 gallons of water a day.
2:13:36 PM
MR. FUHS said he doesn't know anyone who is opposed to HB 198.
2:14:11 PM
REPRESENTATIVE ELKINS offered Amendment 1, as follows:
Page 1, line 9, delete "acquire ownership of"
Hearing no objection, Amendment 1 carries.
2:14:58 PM
CO-CHAIR RAMRAS moved to pass HB 198 as amended with individual
recommendations. There being no objection, it was so ordered.
2:15:56 PM
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, the House
Resources Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 2:16 PM.
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